Juliana Bakhtsizina

In this episode, Juliana Bakhtsizina and I cover a number of fun and interesting topics, including the "unlearning" required to become a global citizen. Juliana shares her transition from a rigid, plan-oriented academic mindset to one that embraces the unpredictability of experiential learning.

From navigating the "logistical nightmare" of a lost passport in New York City, to co-founding the student-run magazine Étoile, Juliana shows us how growth is rarely a passive byproduct of travel; it comes from radical intentionality and sustained mental effort.

Key Takeaways:

• Curiosity as Effort: Why Juliana forced herself to ask a question of every guest speaker, and how she treats curiosity as a muscle rather than a personality trait.
• The "Unlearning" Process: Breaking out of cultural molds and discovering new facets of identity through the modeling of more extroverted peers.
• The Reality of Re-entry: A candid look at the "lowest lows" of returning home after a transformative nine-month journey, and the strategies she used to bridge the two worlds.
• Creative Consolidation: The origin of Étoile and the importance of turning passive observation into active creation.

Follow Juliana on Instagram here.

If you enjoyed the episode, please hit FOLLOW and give us a 5-star rating. You'll never miss an episode, and others will find us more easily. Also, please tell your friends about it.

If you have any specific feedback to help improve the pod, please leave it here.

To learn more about me, have a look at my website and / or follow me on LinkedIn.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello, and welcome to Young Global Leaders, where we get the chance to hear from young people hailing from all around the world, sharing about themselves, their accomplishments, and their vision for a better world. Recently, I had the privilege of leading a group of about a hundred young people from over 40 countries to seven global regions on an eight-month global gap year program. Most of them had just graduated from high school, though we also had a few older students. During our eight-plus months together, the students formed a deeply loving and supportive community. Anyone could see that they had built something unique and inspiring. Through my eyes as a teacher, coach, and global leadership consultant, what I saw was unlike anything I'd seen before. When the program ended, I desperately wanted to keep in touch with these students and to share their example with the world. So I started the Young Global Leaders podcast. Today we are from Juliana Bactzyna. Juliana Bactzyzina, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I want to start just by asking you where you're joining us from today.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I'm actually joining from Morso, Poland, where it's currently minus 13 degrees outside.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Oh gosh. Okay. Let me do a quick quick conversion for our Fahrenheit inclined listeners. Do a little math. That's nine degrees Fahrenheit. That sounds really, really, really cold. Oh, okay. But you're staying warm?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yes. Uh luckily, luckily. But it it it it is really hard to uh to manage the cold, especially in in in the city, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Well, I hope it gets warmer soon. What are you up to in Warsaw?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, I'm actually uh staying here with my uh family for the Christmas break, but I'm based here most of the time while I'm not in Brussels, where I'm based for most of the time because of my work.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Okay. Well, we'll talk more about your work a little bit later. Uh for now I want to ask you the same question that I ask all of the guests on this podcast, which is what makes you you?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Um that's actually it's a really simple question, and I've given it uh a little bit of thought, and I think the best way I can answer to it is just what makes me me is uh oh gosh. Um I just have to really think about it. Uh it's a very meta question, but I think what makes me me is a lot of uh don't want to pray, uh don't wanna uh praise myself, but just I think a lot of empathy is and putting effort into into what I do. And I think that whatever I do and whatever I've done in the past and my journey with Bure as well has been marked by uh a deepening empathy and um a lot of effort, both uh physically and mentally, and uh in my learning and uh my work and whatever I do.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Well, if I can jump in for a moment, I first of all and just say that that very much resonates with my experience of you as well as a very empathetic human. I have also experienced you as an insatiably curious human as well. Does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I think that I think that's why every single Bray scholar or um traveler, that's uh I think like that's a uh definitely a trait of character that all of us have. And um, myself included, I think that's what sets us on this journey.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

I will agree with you in broad strokes that that is a shared characteristic of this group of Bray scholars. And I'll also say that I sat for many, many hours in the same room with you in many different settings throughout the year, whether it was our morning program, um, uh Chinese class.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I I love Chinese class. I'm actually still uh learning Chinese.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

What's that?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I'm still learning Chinese. I'm actually still great. Oh, that makes me so happy.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

That makes me so happy. Um but I I recall all of the curiosity that you brought into that classroom. And then also on fellowship, uh, I'm thinking specifically about our fellowship in um Rwanda. And I have just so many memories of the I would look over at you and you would have this intense, I mean, I'd look around the room a lot just to see how like who who all is engaged and how how folks are engaging. And there was this focus about you. And you would ask questions that were so on point and right in the conversation, and I feel like the folks who were presenting were always really impressed with the questions that you asked because you were paying such close attention. So it isn't just curiosity, it's also a level of focus and engagement that I have found to be a a defining characteristic of you. Does that resonate to you?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I definitely. I think that that was one of my goals for my uh this entire journey that we took was to um to really focus on learning. And I think every time I listened to a speaker, that I think that might have um also come through in how I presented myself, but also um really forcing myself to ask a question. I think that um I made it a goal for myself um to ask at least one question after each speaker, after each meeting. And I think that would that's what also what pushed me to focus more on what they're talking about. I I think curiosity is also a lot, a lot of it is about effort. You have to put a lot of effort to um to be interested, to try to understand. Um, and I think it's something that also doesn't, in some cases, but in my experience, doesn't come as naturally, but it's about putting in that effort um to learn more and to ask questions because ask questi asking questions is actually really hard. Asking good questions is incredibly hard, but uh I think a big part of curiosity and um is forcing yourself and really pushing that focus.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Well, um I guess if it if it's possible for me to be even more amazed at your curiosity, I am now because I didn't realize how much intention and focus you had brought to it. You know, just from the outside, it just seemed so natural, just like naturally a part of who you are. So congratulations to you on having an intention and on following through with that throughout the entire year.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Thank you. I think I think that was one of my uh biggest learnings throughout the year. Um I think I intend I think I wrote it down on a piece of paper during morning program back in the first month when we were in New York. I, with a lot of exclamation marks at the end, that I cannot ask questions because I didn't know how to. And I think making that intention uh to uh to asking questions, to really being interested in um in what the speaker is saying is also something that I actually use now in my day-to-day.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Oh, I love it. That's wonderful, wonderful to hear. Uh the next question I have for you is actually, I kind of want to rewind a little bit, go back in time to before you became a Beret scholar and wondering what you can share with us about your background and then also how you became aware of Beret Scholars, why you decided you wanted to join the program. And if you could just tell us that story, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of our experience was sharing those stories and all the um lucky accidents that um get the I guess put us in that room together. And for me, it was it was truly um uh lucky because um I did not consider Gaffir a possibility uh beforehand. Um and uh I was really uh focused on my academics, and going to university faster was my only dream, even when other people were um considering doing something else or taking a break. I knew and I was convinced that academics and universities is uh what I wanted and what I wanted to do with my life next. Um and I think only after that opportunity just fell into my lap and I was sitting looking at this amazing opportunity, I started thinking about it. Um I guess um my story of finding Beret is not as romantic as other people other people's might, but I um came across uh an ad online. Um essentially I googled Beret Scholars, and that's how I discovered the program and uh uh applied and completely forgot that I even did that. And only after I received that opportunity in my inbox, uh I actually was biking at the time uh somewhere in the mountains. I had to stop. It was getting dark really fast, but I had to stop, sit down, and um that was just uh uh a little bit of a shock to me because I I I don't think I took um when I was applying, I didn't think about it seriously, but when it was uh all possible and I was looking at it and all I had to do is to agree, um, that's where I started thinking about it, that I maybe that's the next step for me. And I'm a big believer in fate. So um I think when um in and an intuition, I just so so I think that when that opportunity was uh available to me, I think that's why I took it. Um but again, this uh this was not something I even considered, and uh, but when it appeared in my inbox, I think it was it really all fell into place and it was natural. And I feel like I made that 180 switch from um really wanting to go to university, not considering any other alternative to uh being dead set on this uh crazy journey um in a matter of an instant, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

What do you think it is about because it's not frequent to hear a uh you know, when you're on a path, there's a lot of reasons for being on a path. And it sounds like here you were on this path of university, but it but it all happened quite suddenly that then you were suddenly on a different path. And I'm wondering if you're able to characterize what it is that made that switch so kind of instantaneous.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah. Um a little bit of a disclaimer. I'm a person who loves plans, who cannot live without a plan, a to-do list, and I need to know what will happen um in a year, in five years, in ten years. Uh so this is this was very uh uncharacteristic for me, uh, which made me even more surprised that I um immediately uh thought this this was a great idea, and now this is what I want to do. I think um I've never thought about an opportunity like this because I never really thought what I could gain from it. There were a really clear um benefit from academics and university. And it was uh laid out in the syllabus, and there was a promise at the end that you will receive a diploma and you will be able to get a job with it easily. So there was a very clear um benefit from it. But I don't think I've ever thought what kind of benefits can alternative paths have. And um I think what was instantaneous for me is that I I I I realized that there that there's that learning is is not limited to what the syllabus says. And if and it feels like, and I think it took me a lot longer to come to that thought, but when I received that acceptance in the inbox, I think it that's where um the thought sort of surfaced. Uh, but I think it took me a lot longer to to process and think somewhat unconsciously or subconsciously, um, that there's the there's all types of learning. And uh when it's not as obvious and not written down neatly for you on a piece of paper as it would be in traditional academic settings, doesn't make it any less valuable. And I think maybe it took me a little bit of time to mature and um to really um come to that conclusion. But in that moment, it was just very it just hit and it was really natural for me to to make that decision.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Great. I mean I completely relate to everything that you just said as an experiential educator, as somebody who's you know spent most of my career inside of universities, but also kind of at the fringes of universities because I mean I love classroom learning. Um and it's also insufficient, in my view, you know, to create the kinds of truly global citizens that um you know the universities claim to be producing. Um it's also what drove drew me to Beret as well. So I appreciate you sharing all of that because it it everything you said makes complete sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

I'm glad.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I'm glad uh so so continuing on this uh this topic of learning, um we talk about learning a lot as an important outcome of a program like Beret. And we talk a little bit less about unlearning. And I'm wondering if you may have had to do any, or I don't know if I had to is the right way to put it, but if you maybe underwent any unlearning on the Beret program, if you'd share about that.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, definitely. Um I think a lot of uh the unlearning that happened was um in the way um I it's going to sound very vague, but in the way I exist and present myself in the world. I think when you exist in one society, in one uh context, in one country, uh in one language even, um, there's very little risk um of uh behaving maybe I wouldn't say inappropriately inappropriately, but in a way that might be um inconventional for this culture. So what I mean by that is that I noticed that when I'm in one country and I'm uh talking with the similar people, we're talking about similar things, we're behaving in similar, predictable ways. And I think unlearning that mold and unlearning that pattern of presenting myself, behaving, speaking, um, doing everything was definitely um a big unlearning uh process that happened for me uh during Bure. What I mean by that is um whenever you talk with different people in a different language, in a different context, in a different culture, you are uh forced to step out of that mold of that um pattern of behavior and pattern of presenting yourself. And I think um at the beginning, I was doing it, uh I was forcing it, meaning that I thought that what I did back home all the time, so um sort of that Eastern European coldness and uh um I guess not uh introversion to a certain sense. I think what I I thought that uh changing that pattern of behavior was me acting somewhat unnaturally and forcing a different um pattern of behavior or personality on me when I was talking, for example, to people from different cultures. But uh with time I realized that um there's actually this is actually a big part of my personality that I feel like I didn't I didn't get a chance to discover uh before. So for me what I thought was learning to exist in different cultures ended up being me unlearning um that pattern of uh of behavior and yeah presenting myself speaking, uh which was which was a realization that came to me quite late into the program, but I'm glad that I uh sat down and gave it a thought that actually there's a lot more to my personality and uh to my um uh the way I want the world to see me than just that one mold, that one society. And kind of being exposed to people who are different helped me realize that um that I can also be like them and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

It's such a beautiful story. I feel like um it's one of the it's it's one of the magical aspects when you uh when you have people like you who uh are driven by curiosity in a lot of ways. You just want to learn, you want to discover. And then you're in an environment with as much uh diversity as we had. And when I say diversity, I mean um I mean there's so many ways in which this is an incredibly diverse group. Uh in this case, you know, the cultural diversity, that when there's exposure, when you get exposed to all of these different ways of being a human, we can get in touch with aspects of ourselves that we maybe either didn't know existed or that were important to us, and we didn't even know it. And it sounds it sounds to me from what you're describing that that does that sound like an accurate reflection of what exactly, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

And I think there's many beautiful examples of it. When I started meeting people who are more open and extroverted, who um don't or are not afraid, for example, to ask uh waiters in restaurants about the history of the city. Um for me that was something unheard of. But when I met people who are doing it openly, I also realized that, hey, I also enjoy doing that and talking with people, talking with strangers and sharing uh sharing knowledge and having this interaction. So I think there's a lot we can learn about ourselves and pieces of our um self or personality that we can discover from interacting with people who are drastically different in some way or the other.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Well, the next question I have for you, I mean, I feel like you've already talked about it. So if if there if there isn't anything front of mind, we can we can move on to the next one, but I'm gonna go ahead and ask it anyway, which is as you've been reflecting on your experience with Beret, what would you say are some of the main ways in which you've grown?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Oh, uh I think there's that's something I reflect on constantly, and I think uh the learning and growing shows up in so many different ways. Unexpectedly, even um some of it shows instantly, some some of it only after a few months, and I'm sure I'll keep discovering and um seeing new ways in which I've grown uh from that experience in the future. But I think one great example of that would be um is definitely just being open in general, and I think that's something that resonated not only with me, but also with a lot of uh my peers. Just being uh I think even though I came into the program curious and open, I think uh had a lot of reservations about. Which questions are okay to ask, which questions are not okay to ask, which um again, a lot of it comes uh down to culture, but also to um to um the difference between how I interact with people now and before I'm bereting. I think Beret, this entire program and experience where you're put in these situations where you have to take a lot of responsibility, where you have to look for solutions fast, when there's a lot of unpredictability that is related to, I guess, just not only traveling, but also constantly interacting with people from different cultures, uh a lot of unpredictability. And I think what I've um definitely learned, and one direction in which I've grown is being a lot more accepting and even welcoming that unpredictability and uncertainty and being open to things like uh rejection or asking for things and not being afraid um of receiving a rejection. Um, and that manifests itself in a lot of ways, from reaching out to a mentor who seems um too big to reply, or talking to people who um uh seem too important to be talking to you back. Uh so are just some of the few examples that I've um uh uh I've noticed recently. Um something I could not even imagine doing before uh the program. It puts in general, I think that I have many conversations about it, but the program this puts you in um situations where you've had to fend for yourself and um advocate for yourself. Um I think many uh of kids our age or young people um are not required and are not put in these positions when they're forced to do that. So I think learning that skill early on, like we did, was to me at least incredibly valuable. Um and it's also somewhat empowering because I advocated for myself and I've gotten myself out of situations um that I thought I would not be able to deal with ever. Um I think uh one very good example of it is when um I got my passport. My passport was lost in New York City. Uh UPS put lost my passport, and I was driving around, went to three different warehouses and cried in front of so many people. Um, but turns it and I spent the whole day trying to get it back. Um and um some um worker at um uh at one of the warehouses had a friend who was working at another warehouse in uh in a completely different uh part of the part of the state. So that I had to uh drive to last minute to to get it back. But uh even the next day I was sitting on an airplane with my with my passport in hand, luckily, reflecting on it and thinking, how was I even able to do that? And I think even though it was scary in the moment, I now know that I can deal with situations like that. And I think that gives me a lot of courage moving forward. That's I think that's a great example. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, Juliana.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

No worries. I just want to say that's uh one of the probably biggest directions I've grown in during the program.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

I didn't I either didn't know or have forgotten about you lost touch with your passport when we were in New York City. Uh I would imagine um well I'll ask you, has it also increased your your confidence?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Oh, definitely. I think I think confidence is um I think I would describe myself as somewhat um sh shy and introverted before the program, definitely. And I think that was partly because um I just didn't know what what I was capable of and uh didn't really have an opportunity to test it and put myself in this stressful situation where I was supposed to uh train or like or uh be more courageous uh to to succeed. And I think um some of some of the situations like this the fast-forward story were negative, some of them were positive, but I think all of them showed me um maybe more courageous and more confident moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Thank you for sharing all of that. And I'm getting a sense of just so much growth in so many aspects of who you are. I'm wondering what the re-entry process might have been like for you after the program. I mean I think we had I think we had one session, I think it was in Beijing. Uh you know, one of the way one of the ways in which you know, because I've had a lot of experience in at the university level with study abroad programs, and one of the ways in which we often fail our students is not offering resources for re-entry. And it's just it there's there's lots of reasons for that. Uh but it's it's an overlooked area because you know, uh uh I think a well-constructed and well-run abroad experience results in significant personal growth, and then the student goes home or you know, to some environment that's more familiar to them from before, and then there can be challenges. And I'm what I'm curious to hear from you is what what the re-entry process was like. Because I mean, I'm thinking about you know, Juliana in early September 2024, and then Juliana in late May 2025. So not the same person.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

What what can you what can you tell us about what the re-entry process was like for you? And maybe maybe still is like. I don't know. It's I mean, yes, it's many months later, and this is early January 2026, but I'm gonna stop talking and love to hear what you have to say about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Definitely. Um I'm going to be very honest, it was not easy. And despite all the conversations we've had um about how we're going to come back to our lives and how tough it's going to be, and even the sessions that um uh was hosted in Beijing, um, I think none of us really imagined, myself included, how tough it would be. Um definitely staying in touch was helpful. We definitely were able to relate to each other. Um, and despite the fact that some students um never re-entered and just kept traveling, some were faced with uh um a situation where where they went from seeing so much of the world to seeing only their city. I think we've all just tried to find a balance uh that works for us. And for me, that was a a very a very long process. I think the re-entry took me a lot longer than I expected. Um but um I went from I think the the lowest low was definitely right after the program ended. I think um after that initial um I was definitely missing home, but after that initial week or so wore off, I realized that this is it, this is my life now. Um and um after seeing the world and having such a dynamic and uh um a life full of activities and friends and so many emotions, um a more stable um period of my life was uh starting. And I think really accepting that was um really hard. And it took me only a month to um uh to accept that. I think there was a point where I thought this is my life now, I'm going to do this forever. Um no more career goals. I I think I seriously considered that option. No more career goals, no more university. I think this is what I'm going to do. Because um I know I I knew that to transition the change back into my uh old routine would be incredibly hard. So I might as well avoid that entirely. Um but I think as more time passed, I had to seriously sit down and think what has changed um in me, about me, uh, that will inform my life into the future. It can my life can cannot stay forever in this dynamic process of traveling. Um this is unsustainable, nor can it be the same as it was before the program. It was it was something completely new, and I just had to figure out how to adjust my life to and my habits, my activities in this new way that acknowledges the transformative process that I went through throughout the the nine months that we spent traveling. And um I think there's a lot to say about the um the things that I've started doing. Uh, a lot of different language courses that I took up, for example, um just to stay connected to the places that I visited by learning their culture. I think this is something that I've been missing as we were traveling. Too much moving around and too little actually learning about the place. So I think I started looking for um these opportunities that I was missing, for example, uh, such as learning about culture and language that I finally had time and energy and space for um once I came back home. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Wow, I'm um I want to dig a little deeper on on one aspect of what you went through during your re-entry process, and that is, you know, you talked about the lowest of the low was right after the program. You're going through some experiencing what sounds like some difficult feelings. What I'm wondering is in in the moments when it was most difficult, do you recall what strategies you might have used to get through?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Um I think um the biggest strategy, I'm a big fan of uh writing. I write a lot, I've write about everything, my feelings, my experiences, and I think um when the thoughts, when the negative feelings are in my head, it's really hard to make sense of them. They're in a big knot. There's a there's chaos happening, and I sometimes I just have this feeling that these thoughts, these feelings are negative, and that's the only thing I'm processing. So what really helped me to untangle that massive knot of seemingly negative feelings is to write it down and also have so, so many conversations with both uh peers who are going through a similar process, but also my family and friends back home um having these conversations and being really, really open about what I feel. Um, I think I'm really grateful to my friends and family who didn't um made me feel like I wasn't grateful for the life that I have. I think that was one of the fears that I had before talking to them is that um had a this wonderful life back home, um, similar to what they're living. And now I went through this amazing experience and I come back and I'm so unhappy. Um, I think what I was afraid of is by complaining about uh this life that we're living, I'm going to um offend them, essentially telling them that how they're living is bad and it's not enough. Your life is boring, I want to do something else. But I think I I'm really grateful uh for my family and friends who were who took the time at least to listen and to understand that this is not what my intentions are. And again, I still have a lot of essays that I wrote about my feelings back then that I revisit uh and think about how um if I read the same essay right now, I think I've understood it. I would understand it a lot differently than I did back then, uh just because I went through this whole process uh of turning these negative feelings into positive ones. And even reading the same cont content, um I interpret it uh completely differently.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Speaking of writing, um really, really powerful strategy that she used. Um it has me thinking about Étoile and your involvement with Etoile. So for our listeners, Ettoile was a magazine that Juliana and several other students decided to create and publish several issues of during Beret's first year. And um I think not only in in the process not only offering well, it it just it was a beautiful project. I'll just say that, and in so many ways. I won't go into all the details about why. I'm personally grateful to you and to others for having created this. Um I want to say I was gonna say artifact, which seems a little funny because yes, it's an artifact, it now exists for posterity, which is wonderful, and then it's so much more than an artifact as well. So, with apologies for the limited terminology, uh what would what can you share with our listeners about how the project came about and about your role in it and what it meant to you? Anything that you'd like to share about Etoile.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Definitely. Um, I will not take the credit for the idea. I want to say that Melena, um our wonderful uh Brace caller from Germany, who was she was the one who came up with the idea and rallied everyone. And I was so happy to uh get on board. Um, and that's where we started co-creating it. And I guess the thoughts that I was having when joining and starting up this project, I think I mentioned that earlier, that I really didn't have a lot of, I didn't have an opportunity to learn more about the context of different places I was visiting. Um we were moving so fast from place to place. I didn't have an opportunity to learn about political, cultural contexts of a certain country or region. And I think we all were in agreement that this was not only um an opportunity for us to produce something, uh, to make some use out of our learning, but also encourage us to uh fill in the gaps in what we know about certain regions. Um it was actually it really reminds me of uh I read a lot, and um, there's this great strategy um that helps me um remember what I read and remember the content of books and articles that I read. And the thing that worked the best for me is producing something out of that knowledge, out of that information I learned from books and articles. And I think I have applied a similar mentality to the process of traveling itself. So I'm like a sponge absorbing all this information from morning programs, from visiting uh different companies, museums, talking with strangers on the street. I think it was just so much information um bombarding me um all the time that uh I think we all felt the need, myself included, to find a way to uh structure it and um really consolidate um that information but also produce something out of it. I think we really, really all wanted to not let it be a passive process of absorbing information, but we really thought that all we were learning about was worth sharing. And I think that's um one of the main ideas that um pushed us to create and continue uh creating Etoile for the entire second semester.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

I loved the different kinds of features you had in there as well. Uh I think an interview with somebody from the host culture was was an important part of it. You would usually profile a, I think always profile a staff member as well. But it was just beautiful. I mean, like, and physically a beautiful like the the actual holding it in your hands and looking at it. I mean, so so much care and attention went into it. So I'd like to personally thank you as well for everything that you did to make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

It was it was it was a logistical nightmare to uh to to managing so many print shops and talking with people. Yeah. It's and and that was a lot, but it it it's a it's a really I think we all uh glad we did it. And again, that's one other way in which um I've learned to be more courageous, and now I know I'm capable of doing something like that. So it makes me more confident doing hard international projects like that in the future. Um, one other thing that I wanted to mention that uh you mentioned doing interviews with our scholars from the host cultures and also staff members. I think uh we were talking a lot about how these interviews really also brought us as a community closer. I think there were so many people and experiences that we feel uh constantly felt uh that we were um missing out on, that we forgot to engage with our own community, with our peers, with other staff members, and having these deep conversations. So definitely it was an amazing excuse to spend more time with uh our group members. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

The next question I have for you is uh again, something you've already gotten into a little bit here. Um see if you have any additional thoughts on it, which is a hundred or so peers from 40 or so countries over the course of eight and a half months. You must know a thing or two about communicating and collaborating across cultures. Have you got any insights that you'd be willing to share with our listeners? Um in this realm.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, that's actually uh I think that uh my answer would connect really well to what I said earlier about stepping out of a certain mold of how I'm presenting myself and um behaving. I think coming back to that mold and seeing it clearly for what it is right now, uh, back in my original culture, I think it made me realize that even my personal culture changed a lot and. I thought I don't think I can step back into that mold again. What I mean by that is by engaging with so many people who have different um patterns of behavior, different traditions, different cultures. First and foremost, I uh was definitely less afraid of making certain faux pas uh when it comes to um uh engaging with different cultures. I think just because we made so many of them, we were a lot more open to explaining why it is like this, why I'm doing certain things a certain way. Um and I think that's also um an amazing lesson for the future when I'm engaging with people uh from different cultures. I think one big realization uh that I had is that people are actually glad to explain uh certain cultural aspects, and I think also uh this experience made me a lot less afraid of making those mistakes and learning from them and really being open to learning and not being embarrassed of making certain mistakes. That's definitely one thing, and the second thing is I noticed that uh while we existed in this space of people from different cultures, religions, and traditions, we have created maybe a certain hybrid culture that was uh an amalgamation, at least for a short period of time, of so many cultures and traditions. We would um, for example, celebrate Christmas uh for uh two times, so for the um uh for the Orthodox and Catholic Church, for example, we would do solidarity uh uh Ramadan with uh with the with the Muslims in the in the group, and we would um just create this space where um we would use words from uh a lot of different languages uh to relate to our peers. And by the end, I've noticed that we were um very different, but at the same time, we're when we existed in that space, we created this very unique culture uh that consists of all the cultures, and I think that was something beautiful, and um I think I uh will forever chase that community and chase that um feeling and uh of being really understood and welcome welcomed no matter what my background that I came in with.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

One way that I have thought about this and I'm thinking about it now is on the one hand, okay, the the bar is really high. Like you all, the community that you created and the way that you related to each other and cared for one another and loved one another throughout this year sets a really high bar. And one way to look at it is oh shoot, well, how am I ever gonna meet that again? Um and then another way to think about it is well, what a thing to shoot for. And that's what I hear you say here is is like you wanna you want to chase that. And I think that's brilliant, and I think that's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

So I just wanted to sort of put that out there as as uh yeah, as as a as an exciting possibility for whoever is fortunate enough to encounter you in the future.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

I think that I think that's a wonderful conclusion, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Um can you share with us what's what's next for you, Juliana?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Uh definitely. I think uh coming back to the process of readjustment, um, I think I was avoiding that topic, but now that we're talking about what's next, I think it's um uh the best time to talk about it. Uh not only did I change um in terms of the way I interact with people and present myself, but also in what goals I set for myself for the future. Um I think seeing so many contexts, talking to so many people living in those very vastly different conditions and contexts definitely made me realize how um important it is to um not only understand but also support people in different communities. So my biggest switch in terms of my career goals and goals in life in general was really focusing on um on politics and focusing on um I guess improving policies to um to help communities all over the world. I think this is something that was not as visible and not as didn't seem as urgent in my uh community. So I've opted for paths uh that were more intellectually appealing to me, like science and physics specifically. But um I think coming back from this experience, I now only now know that there are places there are places where um the context is completely different, and but also I became more aware of the problems and issues that I have in my community that were that I was so blind to earlier. And I think seeing it so clearly is what made me make that massive switch in my career goals. Um I took up my um um I took my career in politics seriously, which um and I currently work for um a party at the European Parliament called VOLT, um with which I actually am uh an expert and the leader of the um community on integration and migration, which we which means I actually get to work with um uh local offices in European cities and municipalities to help improve their um migration policies, migration and integration policies for newcomers. So I actually get to work with my own community and improve conditions for uh the group that, in my opinion, is most vulnerable. I also have been a migrant so many times, and I think I resonate with that a lot. And uh this is uh definitely a direction I intend on moving in uh in the future. And this is something I am really grateful um to this to Barray to this uh experience for just helping me realize how important that is and how um how much good I can do in this in this area.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

It's amazing that you so quickly have been able to move into a professional role in this work.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

When you set your mind on something. Oh sorry. Sorry, for interrupting.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

I think I was I was really I just I knew what I wanted to do, and I think when you uh set your mind on something and you have that pose-beray confidence about your abilities, I think that's uh that's where the most amazing thing things happen, and uh I'm really really happy um that actually can um work in a in an um in a domain that helps people so much.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

So before Beret, you were on this university track, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

And then Beret happened. And you know, we call it a gap year, meaning the gap between high school and university. But it sounds to me like that's not what's happening with you. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Uh I would say so to a certain degree. I still I I still see immense value in academic settings and education. So I do uh I do study, however, I don't I think it uh studying took a back seat because I realized just how much more learning I can uh get out of working on the ground and talking to people and working on real projects like we did with the magazine, Etoile, or with various other projects that we've um managed to um to do during that uh gap year. I think as much as I value uh academic learning, I still uh I study, but I study hybrids because uh I wouldn't be able to uh study otherwise. But I think realizing just how much more I can get out of learning on the ground and working on real projects, definitely the learning curve is a lot steeper.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

No one is holding your hand and walking you through those um uh yeah, academic steps.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

And I would imagine that you you can can you see the impact of your actions more readily as well than in the classroom, do you feel like?

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Definitely, definitely. I think that's a big motivator. Um working with uh local offices and municipalities all over Europe is something that brings immediate, um, well, not immediate, but um very tangible and visible impact. We work with um politicians who are um trying to create a difference in their community and um getting their feedback and um um seeing how well the legislative process, implementing policies is a lot, is a very long process, but uh nevertheless I know that these policies will sooner or later um impact someone's life in a very um in a very tangible way. I think that's something that it's really, really hard to achieve in an academic setting.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

And from what I hear, you're working on changing systems.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Yeah. Uh yes. So long-term impact.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Yeah. Yeah. I think broken systems and systems that can be improved is something that I've seen so many times in different contexts, countries, cities throughout the array. Um and I think asking a lot of questions about uh these contexts and cities made me realize, made me see those different gaps, um, which made me more perceptive towards the gaps in my own context, in my own system that I that I live in.

unknown 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Wow, amazing. Well, I can't wait to see how that all unfolds for you in the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Have you got just a couple more minutes for one final question?

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

Okay. So we live in a world that's full of suffering, and a lot of that suffering is caused by humans. And it can be really easy to feel overwhelmed and even to lose hope. Have you got any words to encourage us about the future?

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Definitely. I think I think what people um forget a lot of the times is that there's a lot of man-made suffering, but almost all the progress that we've made as a civilization, as as a society, is also man-made. And I think we as humans have a tendency to focus on um the bad things. But we have to remember that all the good things that happen in the world are also done by humans. And I think the most the easiest way to see that is really become a part of doing good, of finding your own way to impact the people around you or society on the on a more global scale. And I think once you start doing that, it sounds incredibly cheesy, but I think doing uh something that brings some positive, tangible impact lets you see that I can do good and people in general can do good things and make someone's life or something in this world better. And I think um it's definitely um very important to acknowledge all of the suffering and bad things that happen in the world, and acknowledge the fact that they are man-made, but what I think is more important is to is to not forget that we are also responsible for all the good things that happen in the world.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

Not at all cheesy from my own perspective. That's real and it's practical and it's true, and I really appreciate you highlighting that.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Yeah, thank you. And I think that's also um one of the b uh uh post-Berece callers uh learnings from me.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Um great Juliana, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

Thank you so much for inviting me. It was a lovely conversation. Um thank you so much for all your thoughtful questions. It was a pleasure um discussing them with you.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Oh, my pleasure too.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Juliana. If you did, please tell at least one friend about it. Give us a five star rating and follow the podcast. That will help others find it. Until next time, let's keep our heads clear and our hearts open.