Zeynep Özcan

Zeynep Özcan reflects on resilience, cross-cultural friendship, and what it means to grow while navigating the world at 18.

A few lines from our conversation:

“It’s inevitable that there will be miscommunications—but the person in front of you is someone you care about.”

“If everyone thinks their individual action won’t matter, nothing will ever change.”

“Looking at the problems of the world and wanting to act is more important than just feeling sad about them.”

A thoughtful conversation about growth, openness, and the courage to keep learning.

Follow Zeynep on Instagram @zonkey_blog and on TikTok @zonkey.blog.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Hello, and welcome to Young Global Leaders, where we get the chance to hear from young people hailing from all around the world, sharing about themselves, their accomplishments, and their vision for a better world. Recently, I had the privilege of leading a group of about a hundred young people from over 40 countries to seven global regions on an eight-month global gap year program. Most of them had just graduated from high school, though we also had a few older students. During our eight-plus months together, the students formed a deeply loving and supportive community. Anyone could see that they had built something unique and inspiring. Through my eyes as a teacher, coach, and global leadership consultant, what I saw was unlike anything I'd seen before. When the program ended, I desperately wanted to keep in touch with these students and to share their example with the world. So I started the Young Global Leaders podcast. Today we hear from Zaynep Uzjan. Zainep Uzjan, thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Thank you, Jason, for inviting me.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yes, of course. Can you start by telling us where you're joining us from today?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Today I'm at home, a city called Bursa in Turkey.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Where in Turkey is uh uh Bursa, you said?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah, Bursa. Um if you know Turkey's geography, I'm by the Asian side, right across the European side. So if I could describe it, I would say right across Istanbul. So I'm on the continent of Asia, but relatively closer to Europe.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

And you're at home now because you're on holiday from your first year in college, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yes, exactly. For a month, I'm home for Christmas break.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Excellent. Well, well, let's get right into it. And I'll ask you the same first question that I ask everybody, which is what makes you you?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

When I was thinking about the answer, I was like, should I answer from my perspective? And I thought that what people say about me would be more accurate, I guess. So and I wanted to use the two words that they always describe me as, and one of them is sunshine, the second one is resilient, which I would say are quite opposites. But the fact that those are the two most common ones made me think, okay, people know that things happen in my life and I try to deal with them in the best way possible. And in the end, if I can still be still be a sunshine to them, a happy person who they're happy to talk to, and I don't reflect it on them while I do my own struggle by myself or like asking for help. I think that's a very good way to describe someone, and I'm really proud that people see that I work hard, but at the same time I try to be there for them and for myself. So I guess what makes me make me is being hardworking, but still being out there, being happy, trying to make the most out of my time.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

That all computes for me, uh, knowing what I know about you and having had the experiences with you that I've had and um and the resilience piece in particular, uh I mean really the whole the whole thing, right? But I'm also just thinking about challenges that you faced in our program from the early days. I know there were some there were some visa issues and you had to be apart from the program for a little while and then rejoin the program. And I just recall being really, really impressed with how you handled all of that. That was, you know, potentially something that could have and I know that it did cause stress for you, uh, but once we were all together again in region two uh in Sao Paulo, it was like it was it felt like nothing had happened. It was just like, oh, okay, good. She's back, she's back, she's back, we're all back together, and then it's great. Um, and yeah, on the sunshine piece as well is is I I do feel like um, you know, like when you come in the room, it's like there's there's the the the cheer level goes up.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Definitely. I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Unmistakably, unmistakably. So um, I would definitely be another one of those people who would say that those two words accurately reflect uh who you are.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Um well okay, so can you tell like the I I know this is a really, really, really big question. Uh I'm curious to hear from you uh what's sort of front of mind when it comes to this big global adventure that you were on uh last academic year.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Yeah, I think one thing I realized since we left, and it's been months, that was last May, now we're in 2026, is that once you're in it, once you're in the moment, you don't really realize what you're doing is amazing, and not many people get to do that, especially because we were hundred kids, hundred teenagers, and they all made it that far from very different backgrounds. So you're like, okay, this is a great achievement, that's what they tell me, but other people also did it, and now we're in this very fast-paced process of just traveling, trying to make the most out of it, connecting with people, so you don't really realize what you're doing is actually impressive. Even just the fact that in three weeks you change country, you change the language that they speak, the food, your SIM card, the currency, the very little things that you wouldn't even think of. I still remember when we were in Sao Paulo, we would dress up like we in a really casual way, everything was really like we were really chill about what we were wearing. And the first day in France, we were all astounded by the fashion sense there. The next morning I saw everyone shopping, changing their whole closet. Even just the fact that we could do it immediately, you know, going to the new region, being in that moment, observing, and then deciding what to do next in that very quick pace is impressive, especially at our age, I would say. So I think that was something that I didn't really think of much while we were doing it. But looking back, the fact that my amazing friends, or like just the fact that I could do the same thing as well, is very impressive. And I think one thing we learned about is also resilience in a different way. It's not it doesn't come from struggle. Of course, there were many ups and downs, there were many uncertainties at points, but I think the fact that people could like still get together and do these things together, go shopping together to change their closet according to the French style, is very impressive.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Yeah. Yeah. The nimbleness, I think, uh impressed me about this this whole group. I mean, we're talking about a hundred or so folks uh averaging 18, 19 years of age. And I mean it what it wasn't just I mean, just so our listeners understand, I mean, it we went from summer to winter. It was summer in Sao Paulo and it was like hot and humid and thunderstorms, and then the next day we wake up and it's cold and the days are short. Exactly, exactly. So it's it's not so yes, there is there is the piece about yes, the clothing style of fashion scenes and all of that is different, but it's also uh at a really deeply bodily level, it was just an incredible with complete like flipping a switch. Immediately yeah, and and and everybody responded uh with as you say, like a lot of resilience and and again, I think nimble, um agile. Those words come to mind as well.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Uh how did you come to learn about the program?

SPEAKER_02 7:20

I'm a United World College student, UWC Singapore. So there during an assembly, one of our university college advisors did a presentation about it. I was like, I have to apply. I have to apply. And I I think I applied within the next day or something.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

That was it, huh?

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, I mean it was a bit of a long process. I got in, but then there was a problem with the aid, so we emailed back and forth for a bit. And at that time I already committed to my college because I didn't want to, you know, do something that I wasn't sure of doing. And then one day while I was in Germany visiting my friend that I met in Canada, at night, at like midnight, I got an email saying, okay, we changed the offer, you have three days to accept or reject, give us an answer immediately. And I was like, oh, but I don't know. Like, I'm a very type A person, very organized person. So changing my mind in three days was like the most stressful thing I did back then. But I'm so glad I took that leap of faith and it was the best year yet.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Well, I'm sure there's a lot of people who went to the same presentation you did and did not decide to apply to Bray Scholars. Do you recall what it was about the presentation, what you heard about that that made this program so attractive to you?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Exactly. So the thing is during the program, I had people reaching out to me from my school being like, Well, how did you find out? Like, how are you doing this? Why are you not going to school? And I was like, You were in the same room right next to me. We looked at the same presentation. What do you mean you're not aware of it? I think just the fact that you can travel at the age of 18-19, not just like unstructured traveling, you do whatever, you also meet with people and you try to make the most out of it, especially the fellowship aspect like really appealed to me. I think when I saw it, I was like, okay, this is a dream program, and it there's no way it's real, but if it is real, I would rather take my chances. But for people, I think, Jason, it was a like very much the country's mindset. I guess taking a gap year is like a taboo. Even at home, like people don't really find it the tri you know, it's not very traditional, you know, taking a year off just to travel, just to explore your stuff. It's more like go to your school, get your job as soon as possible, get your car and your house. So the fact that I was like, that can wait for a year and I want to focus on myself for a bit. Whereas in Singapore, it was more like, okay, you better go to college right now and do all of these. So I think people didn't even think about the idea of any gap year in any way. So yeah, and also for me, like I didn't really know what I wanted to study. I entered into Singapore thinking I would want to do astrophysics, so I did higher level maths and physics, and towards the end, I was like, wait, I like economics and politics more, so maybe that's something I want to pursue. So I think having that, you know, not knowing what I wanted to pursue, I was like, okay, Gap year would be great, especially if I can hear what I don't want to do and what I want to do, or like what are the other opportunities that I can follow? I was like, I think this is a perfect opportunity for me to try and see if this is a path that I want to commit to, or I want to go back to my old ideas. So yeah, I think maybe the people in the room were more sure about what they wanted to do with their lives.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Did you have to push through any resistance on the part of anybody? Like, I don't know, parents or relatives, or you know, anybody that thought, hey, what you're wasting a year. I mean, whatever. Like, would did you have to overcome any resistance in throughout the process of joining Bray Scholars?

SPEAKER_02 10:47

For me, again, I'm Turkish, by the way, for the listeners. So especially being a girl, Muslim girl, my dad is from the East. I faced resilience my whole life. Even when I wanted to study abroad to begin with, my first study abroad was Canada, or like just the fact that I wanted to STEM and I was academically rigorous and I wanted to be in front of everyone, doing achieving all that. I always faced resilience. People were like, You're a girl, sit back down. So I learned that it's better for me to grow in silence, achieve things, and then later explain it to people who I care about. So even when I was applying to UWC, I didn't tell my parents until I got in. So with this, with Burie, I didn't tell anyone that I was applying. I just wanted to do it for myself. I was like, if it works out, then I can deal with the consequences. And at first my mom was like, Yeah, already have your college. Like, I think it would be better if you took that path. But my dad was like, when are you ever gonna be this age traveling? So after convincing my mom, they were only like supportive after that point, but there was an initial friction with my parents at the at in the beginning, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Yeah. I guess you know, I you're you're you were already fairly self-selected by being at UWC, which is already a very much a non-standard kind of a thing to do. Yeah, right. So I guess on some level your parents were probably already used to you um wanting a different kind of a path for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Um, so the next question I have for you is you know, me, I'm an educator, I'm always talking about learning all year long. Uh and we in this kind of a program, it's like all about learning. And at the same time, it's also about unlearning. And I'm wondering if there's anything that you can share about what you may have unlearned during your travels.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I think what I've unlearned is being a type A person does not always work. That was my belief. I thought I would get my life straight, and if I planned everything months ahead, everything would work out perfectly, and I would have plan A, B, C, D. You know, there was nothing that could go wrong in my life. That's how I grew up, that's what I did. I guess it's also because I faced a lot of backlash growing up. I was like, I have to be prepared to whatever people might say. But being in a friend group, especially very like respect to Hannah from here, the most type B person I've ever met my entire life, my best friend, Dreamberry. I think I've learned that planning everything beforehand, you know, even having type uh plan Z will not work because in the end, you're doing it for the people, you're doing it for the experience, not because you want to check things off of your list. And at times when things don't go according to plan, because I put so much effort into planning, right? I would get so stressed out, I wouldn't be in I wouldn't be present, I wouldn't be caring about the moment, but rather making the other plan right. But I think what I've learned is that what I've unlearned is that that doesn't have to be the case. You know, you can go with the flow, you can be more present. Do what you can control, focus on it, and do not stress about the rest because you care about the people around you more and you just want to be with them. So just try to make things work out for them. And that works, that goes for traveling, or that goes for, you know, managing a difficult situation when you get sick or being in a different country where you don't speak the language. And I think learning that helped me a lot transitioning into college as well. Because having, you know, taking a year off and then now going back to that academically rigorous environment, I get overwhelmed at times because for a whole year, all I did was like, you know, real life learning, not academic one. So now I know, okay, this is what I can control, this is what I can plan ahead, and the rest might get changed because I have different people surrounding me, and their decisions also have a huge impact on what I want to do. So I would rather, you know, take it chill, go with the flow, be present, you know, carpet DM a bit.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

So I can imagine that creating um so your type A orientation towards life is coming into some kind of a tension with some kind of tension with the people around you, and you're uh trying to negotiate with yourself how you want to show up in this group and the choices that you want to make inside of that. What I'm wondering about is was you know, was there a um uh like a single moment or several moments? Or like did it all did like a moment of insight where you know the tension got to a certain point when you recognized that it was in your best interest to try something else?

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Mm-hmm. So throughout we tried to plan different trips besides what we had for our fellowships and our base cities, because you don't want fellowships, you can't have all your friend grouped in one thing, or like maybe it's not what you want to focus on. So, for example, when we were in New Delhi, we went to Kashmir, when we were in Beijing, we went to Shanghai. So I think these were like constant reflections after those trips. But the last trip that we had, the one that I remember the most was when we were in Beijing, we planned a trip to Shanghai because one of our close friends are from there. And in China, everything works differently, in my opinion. You know, just downloading that train app, trying to translate everything, taking screenshots or going to the train station, not having anyone speak Chinese with us. Like things are just different. And it got a bit overwhelming, and we wanted to travel as a group of ten. So, you know, organizing all that, where to stay, what to do, not speaking the language, the system is so different. I think there was some tension while we were trying to plan the thing. And because we're all from different countries, people can miscommunicate at times because everyone's tones differ a lot. So at one point it almost looked like we weren't gonna make it to Shanghai. If not, our friend group would be over. So we all have to take a break and be like, guys, like you know, if you're doing this for us, not we don't want this to create any tension. Okay, these are the people who speak Chinese in our group and they know better. Okay, we are the people who can do a better planning. So this person and I will plan what we're gonna do there. Okay, this person's gonna try to book the accommodation, we're gonna do this. I think that moment was because it was towards the end as well. We were like, okay, this is what we've learned so far after traveling for eight months. Now we know that this is how we're supposed to prioritize our necessities and who should focus on what. And that taking that break and you know dividing our individual responsibilities made that dream, I made that trip work. And in the end, looking back, we loved it so much, and we came back giggling and laughing and you know, taking a bunch of photos. So I think it was just like throughout not a single realization, but throughout being okay, this is what I've learned from this trip. So next trip when I'm doing this, this is what I'm gonna focus on.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

That's a great story. The um I I often think about things in sort of well, in organizational terms, and there's just a couple things that come to mind uh listening to your story. One, first of all, is is is that you all decided collectively, it sounds to me like the relationships come first. We don't want to do anything that's gonna what'd you say our friend our friend group would be over if you want that to happen, right? Yeah, it's like we don't want that, right? So that that was enough of an uh uh provided enough of an incentive for you all to collectively and individually rethink how you're approaching things. And then you also remove so there's this uh this term in organizational development called um role ambiguity. And it's a it's a notorious source of stress. It's like if I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing and also not supposed to be doing, it's like how do I know what to do? Um and essentially what you all sort of took this organizational approach of eliminating or at least minimizing role ambiguity. You know, you divided up your roles, found a you know, a process that worked, and wow, voila, the things got better.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

So very, very, very innovative, very innovative approach. That's a great story. Thank you for sharing that.

unknown 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Sorry for the sorry for this super nerdy analysis of your uh of your process there.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

I love that. Jason, my mom's a teacher, so having these kind of terminology always makes me so happy. Analyze my stories, please. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Okay, good. Thank you, thank you. So as you've been uh I mean, you already you just shared a story about how you've grown. Uh and I don't know, there must be lots of ways in which you've grown. So I'm wondering if there are other ways that you've had the chance to reflect on since the program ended. What is it now? Um seven and a half months ago. Uh what other ways what other ways have you uh seen that you've that you that you grew throughout the year?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I think I don't really reflect on or I didn't used to really, you know, take time to reflect on the things that I've learned. It was more like, okay, I'm grateful. I hope like there's more to come, you know, always wishing for the best, praying for the best, da-da-da-da. But having a very like tight schedule, moving from place to place, doing very like going to Singapore for two years, you know, I didn't I wouldn't get five minutes to myself to think. So I didn't really do that. But after Buri ended, I did a trap trip with Fatma, Sylvie, Lindsay, and like a bunch of people to Japan. And we were together for eight days, and for the last two days, I was only with Fatma. And for the people who don't know, I care so much about her. She's one of the kindest souls you can ever meet. She's so thoughtful, and she's a person who carries her journal everywhere, so she will reflect throughout her day. Like, whereas there's me who haven't reflected for 19 years of her life, you know? So having that person next to me for two days, she did something to me. I don't know what she did. I became more emotional, I became more reflective, she robbed something off onto me. So since then, I took a lot of time to reflect and think about what we've accomplished, what I've accomplished. And I think the best word to describe is a Turkish verb. I know you like languages, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

There's a verb called yontulmak, and it means to have one's rough edges worn down, becoming more refined over time. I think I don't think there's an English like translation that directly like tells the whole story. And we normally use this for like, for example, you're trying to make a wooden um spoon, right? You need to take your time, you know, be very cautious with it, to be very careful. And in the end, that spoon is shiny and like it's purposeful, it's useful, it looks good. So I think that's what I've done throughout the year. I got Yon Tulmac. Um and that means that through ups and downs, you know, I got horribly sick in Brazil. But the next night I was at Bruno Mars's concert, you know, not being able to talk, but I was there singing my lungs out. Or um I got into a relationship which lasted a bit short, but you know, that also taught me what I want to value in my personal life. I met with friends who I thought would become best friends in the beginning. But in the end, we could we did we didn't even hug each other. And then I met with people who I didn't think we would get along with, but they became my best friends in the end. So I think throughout Bahrain, there were a lot of ups and downs. And what I tried to do when I came back was I tried to look at my perspective look at what I've done as a third person. I was like, okay, this is this kind of a person, this is how I approached them, this is what I said. And the fact that we were from 40 different nationalities and different cultures, like you really need to be very careful about how you approach people. You know, I think with Americans it's a bit more straightforward. That's what I've been trying to do in the US as well, you know, trying to get better at, you know, saying what I need to do, what I need to get done. But Raswell, I was in Singapore, it was more like, hey, like, do you mind if you do this da-da-da-da-da? You know, you go around a lot and you try to, you know, make your way to the topic. So I think looking back at okay, this person was from this country, this is who they are as a person, introvert, extrovert, this is how they approach other people. They're nice, they're relatively, you know, not very nice. And then this was the conversation that we had, and this was the outcome that we came come out from. I was like, okay, this is what you did right, this is what you could have done better, maybe next time focus on that. But also, one thing I realized throughout was that I made amazing friendships, amazing people who took care of me. I think Beria family overall was a great, we had a great cohort. Even when I got sick, I got cured with a Japanese cough drop, Kenyan flu medicine, and a Moroccan tea mix something to heal my throat. You know, just having that in front of me while I was dying, scream, you know, like coughing my lungs out, and the fact that my burger family was there for me shows me two things. First, they care about me, they're really great people, and they will do whatever to take care of me. Second, that means that I did something good for them too, so now they're paying it back in a way. So I guess all of us got that, you know, getting a rough edges worn out, you know, trying to learn. You know, sometimes you can do it wrong, and then it's important to fix it and try to look make it look better. So I guess throughout we all got into a shape, I guess better or worse, but in my opinion, I made the most out of it, and I'm really happy with the outcome.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Oh, there's so much in that story. Um I mean the first thing that comes to mind is I guess it's it's it's part metaphorical and also actually quite literal. Um these three remedies from these three different cultures. You know, we often talk about how important it is to have a broad diversity of approaches to problem solving. And whoa, that's a pretty concrete example, right? It's like you had these three different options from three different traditions, and each of them and all of them contributed to your healing. So that that just that by itself, just even that one little piece is such a beautiful story. I'm also just noticing how open you are about just trying stuff and seeing what works. You know, there's there's in the world of like innovation, you know, people talk about human-centered design and there's all these fancy courses that you can go through. I lead some of these courses too. Um and it's just you know, there's structures and processes that you go through. And it's just what I'm picking up on is that's just kind of who you are. It's like woven into your existence is hey, I'll try this. See what I can learn. Maybe it works great, great, do the same thing, keep trying it. If not, then then see what you can see what you can tweak to make things work a little bit better. Um, there's there was another thing that you said that that was that was sticking with me as well, and I'm having a hard time remembering what it is. Um maybe I'll think about it later, maybe I won't. But uh, but but but that's a that's a beautiful story. Um and I love the image of all of you wearing down each other's rough edges. Yeah. Uh but it also speaks to the deep and profound love that all of you have for one another that was just such a thing to observe and to feel uh the the deep and genuine care that the ways that you all cared for one another, especially in your times of most dire need. And so imagining you, you know, coughing, coughing, coughing, sick, sick, sick, and all of these different members of the cohort coming to you and sharing their remedies with you and caring for you. Um and yeah, and and they did that because you had also been doing like caring for them as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

I guess it also go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

No, please go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

I guess the reason why I give like the desperate times example is because it's more it's closer to heart and it's more heartwarming the fact that when I needed them the most they were there for me. But also just the fact that we could share a meal, just the fact that we could share those beautiful moments, everyone did a bunch of projects where they included each other, you know, the videos that we watched during graduation. It just shows that we could as a cohort coexist together really well, and all of us mingled with one another. I don't think any person did not talk to each other at a point, you know. We all had some kind of a personal connection with each other, and I think that was what was really most like that was the most beautiful thing I could experience as an 18-year-old as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah, yeah. Well said, well said. Uh and also amazing for me to witness as well, especially amongst such a well, I don't know. Um, I don't want to get into like whether it's more amazing or less amazing that it was a young group of people, because you know, young folks can also tend to be more open to new experiences, etc. etc. etc. Regardless. It was incredible to witness how you all cared for one another. Um I have truly never seen anything like it before. Um, and I just remembered the uh the other thing that I forgot a second ago as well. Uh so this is another nerdy thing, you know, as intercultural consultant person. Um I love your example about communication style and how you've adapted your communication style in culturally appropriate ways. Uh you know, noticing how Singapore sounds like there was a more maybe more indirect communication style where you wouldn't people wouldn't necessarily come come right out and say whatever it is that they're thinking and um your willingness and ability to adapt to that kind of a situation, and then then the United States, which tends to be a little bit more direct communicating, adapting your style there as well. There's a lot there too. Um and uh later, is it is that my next question? Uh no, but later on, you know, I'll I'll be asking you a question specifically about cultural adaptation. So we'll come back to that topic. Um the next question I have for you is uh so what do you recall about the re-entry process after the program? And the reason that I'm asking you this question is and I think in one of our last uh entire cohort sessions, we we talked about this a little bit, but it's it's it's a classic uh problem when uh really anybody, but especially young people, return from some kind of a transformative experience where you know you've changed and maybe the folks in your life haven't changed as much, or it can be hard to relate to folks. And these challenges can sometimes be significant, and I'm just really curious what that process was like for you.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I think because the last four years of my life, and I was gonna be four, it's very soon. I've was away from home for four or five months, I would only come back for a month or two, and then my parents would see this huge change in me. I think they got used to how to adjust, and I got used to how to adjust back because the fact that they still think of me as their little baby, you know, who can't do anything. I I mean you can relate your two daughters. Sometimes there are a lot of clashes, you know, because I'm like, okay, I'm independent, I can do this and that, I can wear whatever, I can go out whenever. But then to them, they're like, okay, you're still our daughter, you're back home, and in our eyes, you're still five years old. So you need to, you know, we need to communicate some stuff here. So I guess in the beginning it was really difficult, and at times it would get overwhelming, especially, you know, normally when you're an individual, like you're alone at times and you hang out with friends, but then now you're back and you're with three other people in my household, so you know that would be like overstimulating at times. But because I've been through it many countless times before, and I guess it was relatively easier. But that this time that what they told me was the difference that they would tell me would mostly be like, you know, smaller changes. Okay, she's getting older, she's a teenager now, now she knows how to navigate some stuff. But this time I got back, they were like, okay, she went through life by herself. Now she knows some skills, you know. She knows how to go and talk to a stranger. If she needs to go to a hospital, no, she can do it by herself. She can pack her suitcase all by herself in two minutes because that's what she used to do during her gap year. You know, those little life skills that they noticed, it made me so happy. Because, you know, those things you can't really learn from school, but you learn through your experiences and the fact that I had it in such different contexts, such different countries with different cultures from me, had to teach me, yeah, I had to learn how to deal with it. And the fact that they could observe it even in like very my home setting with my own culture, with my own people, that was very meaningful to me. But also, what I remember, which was insane in my opinion, to my re-entry, was that I slept for a whole month. Like I could not lift my body up. Wow. I guess like, yeah, once you're in the process, you don't really think about it. You just keep pushing forward and like you know, you keep pushing harder. And our Japan trip for 10 days, we went to three different cities with you know our whole suitcases from the whole gap year. So three big suitcases, you know, uh packed schedule, 7 a.m. to midnight, doing this and that, and trying to say bye to people because all of us like had separated throughout the trip. So I guess that also tired me out a lot. So when I came back, you know, all that tiredness just like made me really close to my bed, and I had to take a while. But the good thing is that the school was still like ongoing here. So my mom's a teacher, she was still at school, my dad works, my sister was still at school. So I could take some time off, you know, being quiet, not doing anything for a bit, and that and then go through that reflection process Fatima had put me through. So that was the time I thought about, you know, who did I become? Who am I now? Who's they now? So I guess that was really nice as well, thinking about it. But also one thing I realized was okay, I took a year off, and before this I was in such like a competitive institution for high school. Now it will be difficult for me to adjust back into college, and this time it's real deal. It's higher education. So I need to actually like lock in and do my work. And I I actually chose courses that are difficult to me, like econ 100, Mandarin 101, Calculus 2, and my core like mandatory course. So I just like sat back on my desk after a month. I started studying maths, I started doing some Chinese practices so I could like you know get back into the rhythm of getting up, studying, sitting in front of a computer because my attention spam had got such short, like it was it was really bad, you know, focusing on something for more than 30 minutes at points. So that was the first time I started to, you know, go back to that school mindset of studying, studying, studying. But also I was like, okay, now I know that in the real world, people will not bring everything to you in a golden plate. So I need to go and search for it. I need to talk to people, I need to be more out there because that's what we did, right? We just like kept talking to people and learning from their experiences. So I was like, okay, these are my goals for the semester, this is what I want to achieve, these are the leadership roles that I want to apply to, this is why I want to achieve them. And with the new person that I became, this is the CV of me right now, this is who Zay is right now, and she can do these things, like she can get them done. So I had that very clear mindset before going to the US. And once I was there, when things were working out, um, what I remember is that I could like secretly, in a cool way, brag about my experiences. Someone was like, Oh yeah, I'm from Korea. I saw that you've been there. I was like, Yeah, I was there, you know, this is what I did, this is where I traveled. Or, like, for example, they saw my scar on my leg. They were like, Oh, where did you get your scar from? I was like, Oh, I got it from a motorbike when I was going to my surfing lesson in Sri Lanka before I volunteered at a kid's school. You know, like nothing, like everyone goes through that. It's like daily life things. And they're like, Why were you in Sri Lanka on a motorbike? You know, there's so many levels to that story. So I guess that was really cool as well. So yeah, that was my transition process. A lot of thinking, a lot of working and bragging throughout.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

The humble brag.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Humble brag, very humble.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Yeah. Well, I'm I'm also really glad you had the chance to rest because it sounds like you know your your body was uh was definitely noticing what you had put it through.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Um so I guess yeah, this is the the the next question is about about you know culture, collaboration across cultures, communication and collaboration across cultures, and you've already shared one big example with us. I'm just wondering um if there are other insights that you've gained throughout uh your travels with Bray Scholars and your interactions with all of your peers and all of that, um, about effective communication and collaboration across cultures.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

It's also like very resume kind of like you know, communication, but at times when we use it, we don't really know what it means. But I think after my gap year, I've noticed that okay, what we try to say when we know we know how to communicate on our resumes means that navigating through obstacles and you know, going to different people's levels because not everyone speaks the same, or like especially if you're from different cultures, it's completely different. And Jason, when I tell you in the US, most most of the times I want to cry my eyes out because people are so straightforward to me here. But then I also came to realize that that's how it works here. When I when I'm not straightforward, people don't understand me either. So, you know, it's not a one-sided arrow, it's double-sided. So I'm trying to get better at it as well, and I'm like, I know how to communicate, I did it before. And I think like with the traveling story that I told you before, like not knowing how to talk to different people, there are like a couple of things that I thought of. First is that I think I've learned that I need to become aware that we all communicate very differently. The way you speak is very different to the way that I speak, you know. The way you're gonna phrase your sentences is completely different. Also, there's the language barrier with some people, you know. It's some of ours like fourth language, and not all of us are very good at expressing expressing ourselves, and sometimes it gets difficult, and we always say, it's not my mother tongue, you know, that's not what I'm trying to say, you got me wrong. So I think I had to become more aware of that. That we all have different modes of communication, the the the way we communicate is completely different. I think the second thing I thought of was the fact that it is inevitable that there will be miscommunications. Like there must be. Even with people from my own country, own culture, same language, there are always some kind of miscommunications. You know, my body language, you might understand it differently. If I raise my eyebrow, maybe it means something wrong in your country, but it means something nice in my country. So it is very much inevitable that there will be some miscommunications. And third, I also told Drew in our like friendship story, is that you need to realize that the person you're talking to is someone you deeply care about and you don't want to offend them, or you don't want to assume the worst of them.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Maybe they said something and you got offended by it, but probably that was not their intention. Or maybe you said something and you didn't even realize but they're heartbroken by it. So you would want to communicate it and you'd be like, hey, what's wrong? Like, did I offend you? Did I say something wrong? So I think that constant idea of okay, like there's a person in front of me, there are many barriers in front of us, and we're still trying to make this thing work. So it's very important that we put ourselves first, we put each other first rather than focusing on the negatives of it. And one advice that I would give to anyone going through this is that at times it would get so overwhelming because at the same time, like we have roommates, right? So you never really get alone time, especially if you're in a foreign country, that you're you know, you cannot make friends just by like passing by someone. So sometimes you need to stick together as well. If you're going out, you know, you don't want to be alone. So you're always surrounded by someone. So what I would do was like if I if I was in a safe environment, I would take some time off to be by myself, listen to some Turkish songs, you know, not talk to anyone for a bit, calm myself down, think to myself, okay, like this person, they're not trying to hurt me actively. There's just some miscommunications between us, and it's important that I cool myself down before I say anything wrong. So I guess taking those taking that some time off to reflect and to cool down is also very important.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Hmm. Again, so much in there. Um I think that last piece is so often overlooked in human interactions. Um, interpersonal, intercultural, you know, all of the above. Because we tend we, you know, we get triggered by difference, and including cultural difference, communication style, all of that. And you know, the sort of default human norm is is whatever whatever that feeling is we have when we've been triggered is like we feel we've been wronged or whatever it is. We're going to assume the worst and we'll act on it too. And that piece about creating space for yourself to calm yourself down, get your get yourself back to some form of homeostasis, right? Calming the threat response in the brain so that you can engage your brain's higher functions.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

That's really powerful stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

I mean, that's that's the because that's the thing, you know, it's like we can talk about the wonderful Bray Scholars cohort and all of the love, but that doesn't just happen, right? That's something that you all had to create and recreate every single day.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Especially with roommates. We did the roommate agreements and all that, but like sometimes if you do stuff on paper, that doesn't necessarily happen in real life, right? Right. Sometimes you can like something that you never thought of might happen. So I remember talking because we also had a bunch of roommates throughout regions, right? So that's also impressive, the fact that we could just like live with someone different every time. I remember being like, okay, this person and I are so good. We go on like little roommate dates, um, we're so chill, and then our sleeping schedule fits each other, we're clean, that this and that. But something that I unexpected that I would have never thought of happened, for example, and then I'd be like, hey, like this is what you did. I know that's not what you want to do, but it it would be better if you could communicate and do this. And then everyone was quite reflective, especially towards the end. They realized that their actions had consequences on other people as well. So the fact that our cohort became aware of it was really impressive.

unknown 41:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Great. Well, thank you for summarizing all that. Okay, well, um, I guess the next question I'm got here is a future focus question, which is what is what's what's next for you?

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Next for me is college. Of course I'm back at that road. You know how I told you, okay, get your college degree, get a house, get a car.

unknown 42:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I guess we're back on that path, but now more aware. I know that I don't need to rush things out, and I know that there are more beauties to life. You know, traveling is always nice, taking a break for a bit is always nice, hearing a different language is perfect. Um But the reason I took a gap year was also because I didn't know what I wanted to study. Like I said before, I wanted to do astrophysics, but then I wasn't sure of it much. That's why I applied to liberal arts colleges, and then that's why I did Bureau. And throughout, I've heard a lot of stories about how people came to that point. You know, everyone started at point A, for example, being born, but everyone follows such a different path, and somehow they all ended up in these amazing places with very much different stories. And what I tried to do throughout the year was that okay, this is not what I want to do, but that sounds very appealing, but at the same time, this is this opportunity that I've never thought of. So let me try to do that instead. So being at my current institution is great, it's lovely, and I think I'm trying to make the most out of it. But because now I know what I want to do better, I think liberal arts is not the place for me, really. Like people are taking their time to decide what to do, you know, what to do being at an institution where they can just try for four years and see how it goes. But again, being that type A person who also lived in Singapore for two years, I'm like, okay, now it's better for me to not lose any time. So I'm looking for opportunities to transfer. Currently, like being at home, I'm trying to write my college essays, work on my SATs, and I think I want to be on the East Coast, I want to be closer to home because 11 hours of time difference is actually messing up with my life. I need to be closer to home as well. And I decided that while We're traveling, you know, there's this always constant reflection in my mind. I'm like, okay, now this country is perfect to travel, but would I live here? No, not really. Okay, this country does this really well, but then this is also a bit sketchy, I wouldn't do that. Also, we did a lot of volunteering. I tried to do a lot of volunteering. So, seeing that high class and you know the other class, I was constantly reflecting, and all I could think of was Singapore was actually great. And like while we were while we were in China, I was like, China was actually great. Like I really liked it. Like, this was the happiest place I was at. My belly was really happy to begin with. The people were so nice, and I felt more welcomed. Also, I kept reflecting on the concept of family because in Turkish culture, family is like we have to be united. Um, you have to spend some kind of time with family, you're always there for each other. Whereas in some cultures it's more individualistic. But when I was in Singapore, everyone I was surrounded with was also in that caliber. You know, family mattered a lot. So I guess being in China, I was like, okay, this country actually suits me more than I would think. And and I fell in love with Shanghai, a bit. It was one of the most beautiful places that I've been to. So I think I'm trying to make my path back to Singapore or China, you know, East Asia, Southeast Asia. So with that hyper focus in my mind, with my love for econ politics, I think I will apply to transfer for those majors. And I know that you did East Asian studies at Harvard. That's that sounds very appealing to me, if I'm to being honest. So yeah, I'm looking at different paths now.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Wow, okay, and they're hoping to start your sophomore year in a different institution.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Yeah, that's the goal. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Wow. Well, congratulations on having achieved that level of clarity. I mean, I could just I could imagine if it were somebody else. Um just settling and being, you know, feeling like, oh, I worked so hard, I spent so much time, energy to get myself to where I am. So I'll just stay here. But uh not you.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

I can't do that.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that takes a lot of courage and congratulations on having arrived at that decision. I I hope that wherever you end up going, and it sounds like I mean, if you end up in Singapore or China, you probably will continue with studying Mandarin, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Yeah, because as you know, I've got a personal stake. I have a personal stake in that, yeah. Good, good, good.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

No, genuinely, like meeting you looking back, I thought of a lot, like, okay, we have a saying as well, like if a door closes in front of you, then you thought that that door was like the most important, the only path for you, if it closed, that probably means that there are 40 other doors waiting for you on the other side. Uh and I think because I didn't really want to go to my current university, I did beret because I wanted to take some time off the thing. And then who did I meet? I met you, I met with Li Jing, I respect her so very much. I made amazing friends who supported me throughout. I'm like, okay, these people surely like taught me something at one point. Just the fact that having you as an example as well, okay, maybe it's not a path that everyone follows, but there's someone who succeeded at it, he loves it, and maybe it's nice to, you know, follow a similar path as well. So Thurry actually like also gave me a lot of insider information with people who had followed the same path.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Great. And also open invitation. Uh if if you ever if you ever have questions about Chinese or want to talk about it, you know, I'll I can I can talk at you for hours about that.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Well, last question I've got for you is um you know that we live in a world that's full of suffering, and a lot of that suffering is caused by humans, and it can really be really easy to feel overwhelmed and discouraged and to lose hope. Have you got any words to encourage us about the future?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Yeah. Um, being from the Middle East, again, being a girl as well, being a Muslim woman, we had to grow up in a survival mode, and you cannot always focus on the negative things because there's a lot of bad things happening around us. Maybe not in my country at all times, but around my neighboring countries, or I'm someone who grew up listening to a lot of history lessons, you know. Throughout the history of humankind, there was always a problem. There's always been negative times, and I believe that what we're going through currently is one of the worst that we've ever been. Look at Ukraine and Russia, look at Israel and Palestine, and look at Venezuela currently, you know, you know, there's so much happening. Even like Thailand and Cambodia, it's horrible. And every day when I read the news, it's just something worse is happening. But at the same time, I'm aware that if you keep focusing on the negatives of it, you will just be sad, you won't do anything about it, and you'll feel miserable in your own state. And that's not how it works, and that's not what you should be doing. I think looking at what's bad and wanting to take some action to change it is more important than looking at your phone and frowning the whole day. That's what I've been taught my whole life, that's what I've been trying to do, that's what I keep pushing forward to, you know, go to different countries. It's not I I get so tired at times, you know. I didn't see my sister grow up, but I know that as someone who's aware of what's happening around the world, I need to make something work. I need to bring some kind of peace. And if all of us say, like, okay, you know, my single individual action will not do anything, that you know what's not nothing's gonna change. So I think people should be aware that your individual action can make a huge difference, and we're all responsible in what's happening right now. So please, instead of being sad and losing your hope, just be out there, read yourself, educate yourself, but also have the ambition and courage to be out there and change whatever you can change because those people, those babies, those animals, they all need your help. So please guys, keep fighting, be out there.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Ah, beautiful, uplifting, and empowering note to end on.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Zaynet. If you did, please tell at least one friend about it. Give us a five star rating and follow the podcast. That will help others find this. Until next time, let's keep our heads clear and our hearts open.